Talk:Dual Striking
Will dual striking nerf the crits you get w/ attack talents like riposte, cripple and punisher? Will it also make attack talents that can crit like whirlwind, flurry and dual weapon sweep unable to crit? :Riposte, Cripple, Punisher, etc crit as they normally would. Crit-capable abilities don't crit but the damage bonus from Dual Weapon Sweep still applies. I guess that should also be specified in the article? SUP3R SP3C1AL DR4G0N MAST3R H3R0 13 (talk) 11:40, July 16, 2010 (UTC) :To be clear, when you activate talents such as Riposte, Cripple or Punisher, that talent takes over until its animation duration is complete. The behavior of the activated talent will take precedence over any sustained abilities that might be active. This can most easily be seen when a double-hasted character wielding a greatsword uses a talent like Sunder Arms. Their normal swings will be at or near the maximum animation speed, but once they begin to perform an activated talent, that talent's animation speed is fixed and the net effect will be a perceived slowing down of attack speed until the activated talent is complete. A more relevant example to the original question would be that Riposte, Cripple and Punisher do not have their animations' rate increased if the player is under the effects of Haste or Momentum. The greatsword example is easier to notice but they both are consistent examples of activated talent behavior.Kastagir (talk) 01:46, February 12, 2011 (UTC) Animation bug Shouldn't the animation bug with this be mentioned? --SUP3R SP3C1AL DR4G0N MAST3R H3R0 13 (talk) 23:18, July 14, 2010 (UTC) :You can add it! Don't be afraid to tweak some things. If you are unsure how to, explain it here and either myself or someone else will add it. :) 23:21, July 14, 2010 (UTC) :Added and (roughly) described. From the threads I've seen about it I would assume it to be a PC issue. It happens to me under both 1.02 and 1.03 patches for starters. SUP3R SP3C1AL DR4G0N MAST3R H3R0 13 (talk) 11:26, July 16, 2010 (UTC) Dual Striking and Coup De Grace So we know Riposte, Cripple, et al, crit normally when Dual Striking is running. What about Coup De Grace? Does Coup De Grace still grant automatic backstabs against stunned or paralyzed targets if you have Dual Striking running? Gruedragon (talk) 14:45, February 22, 2011 (UTC) To Crit or not to Crit? I was just doing some "cocktail napkin" style calcs to find the rough points at which dual-striking stops outperforming natural criticals. The surprising thing is that I don't think it ever does in practice. Grossly simplified, assuming 100% hit-rate, we have ds dmg = damage * d'S'.factor crit dmg = damage * (1 + 'C'rit.rate * (crit.'M'ultiplier - 1)) ie. C = (S-1)/(M-1) where 0<=C<=1, 1<=S<=2, and 1.5<=M<=3.5 Since we know the both boundary and "reasonable" values for S&M, we can now do a few quick checks to see what we need to C. For S=2, M=3.5, C=0.4; ie. you need 40% crit-rate and 200% in crit-damage gear to match dual-striking if it's working perfectly according to description. For S=1.4, M=1.5, C=0.8; ie. you need 80% crit-rate with zero crit-damage gear to match dual-striking if DS is not really doubling everything as is suspected by the page author and includes a hefty automatic miss factor of it's own. For S=1.4, M=1.8, C=0.5; ie. 50% crit-rate with 30% crit-damage to beat a "broken" DS. For C=1.0, M=S; ie. backstabbing probably beats dual-striking if DS is broken. If it's working perfectly for you, then you need 50% in crit-damage gear to match dual-striking while backstabbing. This doesn't account for extra BS talents like exploit weakness and shadow striking. None of this includes the fact that dual-striking doubles bonus damage such as berserk, tainted blade, runes, +dmg, and flame/frost weapon, while criticals only multiply the attribute-modified damage. To me this effectively translates as "dual-striking always wins". Backstabbing could beat it, but you need the gear and talents to make it so (not to mention all the time wasted prancing around to the back of things). As a corrolary to this, dual-striking is really all you need in DW talents if you want to give your archer a strong melee option. I tend to keep my archers pure to simplify their automatic tactics, but having them swap back and forth via tactics does work with enough tactics slots (takes about 7 or 8 slots, iirc). (talk) 02:30, December 14, 2011 (UTC) Bjond